Professor Catherine Montgomery: Hello, and Welcome to the Compare Podcast Series!  I am Professor Catherine Montgomery. I am a Professor of Education in the School of Education at the University of Durham in the UK. I’m also the Deputy Executive Dean for the Faculty of Social Sciences and Health. And one of the Editors of Compare.

This is the third podcast in the Compare and 糖心传媒 podcast series. And for our third episode, we’ll be talking to – Dr Salome Joy Awidi, Dr Lisnet Mwadzaangati, and Dr Jerusalem Yibeltal Yizengaw – who are the Compare Fellows. Compare Fellowship is a mentorship programme run by journal Compare and 糖心传媒 to support early career academics from the Global South in disseminating their research and scholarship to a global audience. We will talk to Salome, Lisnet, and Jerusalem about their experience of Compare Fellowship. 

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Catherine Montgomery: Welcome to Compare Podcast – Salome, Lisnet, and Jerusalem. Its really great to have a chance to work with you as Compare Fellows and talk to you for this podcast . I just wondered if you could just briefly introduce yourselves if each person could say just something briefly about their context and where they are. So let’s start with Jerusalem.

Jerusalem Yibeltal Yizengaw: Thank you very much for this chance. I am Jerusalem Yibeltal, and I work at one of the Ethiopian universities, Bahir Dar University. I am an Associate Professor of International and Comparative Education. My research interests include graduate employment, education and employment, higher education and linkages with employability skills, and gender, education and development. 

Catherine Montgomery: Fantastic! Thank you, Jerusalem. Thanks very much, and perhaps Lisnet now. Would you like to tell us very briefly about yourself?

Lisnet Mwadzaangati: Thank you very much, Catherine. I am Lisnet Mwadzaangati. I am an Associate Professor in Mathematics Education at the University of Malawi. Thank you.

Catherine Montgomery: Great, thank you! And Salome?

Salome Joy Awidi: Yes, thank you, Catherine and my colleagues. My name is Salome Awidi. I am based in Uganda. And I have been working in refugee education in Uganda for the last many years, and I’m affiliated with Gulu University. However, I also work with Finn Church Aid, a refugee agency in Uganda. Thank you!

Catherine Montgomery: That’s brilliant! It’s amazing to have three different countries represented this morning. It’s really exciting to have you on the call. So, in today’s conversation, we would love to get to know you and your experiences with the Compare Fellowship. Could you start by sharing how you first heard about the Compare Fellowship and what motivated you to apply, and if you encountered any challenges or surprises along the way? Let’s maybe start with Jerusalem again.

Jerusalem Yibeltal Yizengaw: OK, thank you for this question. The complete Fellowship experience and the mentorship programme were really incredible. I have made submissions to different international journals. I was writing lots of manuscripts with friends and by myself. We also tried our best to publish in different peer-reviewed international journals. We tried our best. I mean, I would say that for the last decade, we have had lots of rejections from those international journals. Of course, some are published. So, what would be the problem? I mean, how can we really improve ourselves to get published in different journals? That was always in our minds, me and my colleagues. So, one of our colleagues – he was a Lecturer here in Bahir Dar University. He is now working at Cambridge University of Cambridge, where he shared different kinds of scholarships just to try. He encourages us to compete for that Compare Fellowship. We are really grateful, and we appreciate his effort, and we tried it out. The first time, I couldn’t get the chance. But for the next time, I tried my best and improved myself, with different kinds of capacity building. And then, I got the chance to be a Compare Fellow. Professor Ricardo is my mentor. Professor Ricardo has the same research interest as me in economics. Yeah, I am very much interested in working with different econometrics methodologies and econometrics tools, and a more specific idea was to work with youth employment and labour market engagements. So, I just focused on gender and how gender is treated in labour markets as my engagements throughout the Fellowship. So, I had engagements with Professor Ricardo for almost a week or two weeks. I really benefited from this mentorship, and, most importantly, when I also came to Cambridge, I saw lots of things I could observe – how a world-class University operates. So the journey is really incredible, I would say.

Catherine Montgomery: That was really interesting, Jerusalem; thank you so much. You’ve answered a couple of the questions there, so that’s really helpful. Let’s move on to Salome. Can you talk to us now?

Salome Joy Awidi: Yes, of course. I was the Compare Fellow for 2022 -2023. At the time, Catherine, I was engaged in a research project here in Uganda at Gulu University and the University of Nottingham – a project called DRIVE. DRIVE is Disabled Refugees’ Included and Visible in Education. So, it was basically a project that looked at educational inclusion and the exclusion of refugee children in Uganda. So, that was kind of my link to the mentor that I eventually got to work with. Through that research project, I also benefited from a British Academy scholarship programme – 2 two-week workshops for young authors, where we had an online engagement with our mentors to learn how to write academic journals and manuscripts. So, two weeks became a very short period to learn and all that I needed to learn, so it was at that point that my mentor introduced and shared with me the call for Compare Fellowship. And I did apply, and I think I put him as one of my referees. And my submission was accepted, and that’s how I got myself to Compare Fellowship. Challenges you asked maybe -at the time, I was excited about the possibility of learning to be an Academy greater myself but also to support other young authors in developing their writing skills. At the time, I was the president of Professional Association of Educators in Uganda, and we were struggling with the lack of data; people lack the skills to write for journals, so I was excited about it. And I must say I thought it was a wonderful opportunity. Thank you. 

Catherine Montgomery: Fantastic! That’s great, Salome. Very interesting! It was really interesting to hear about your project. Lisnet, would you be able to talk to us?

Lisnet Mwadzaangati: Thank you very much. So, I will start with where how I heard about the Fellowship – it was on our mailing list. I just saw that someone just posted that there was this opportunity for the Fellowship. At that time, I was a young researcher who had just finished my PhD. Then, I was looking for a Fellowship to help me improve my academic writing skills and other experiences. So, of course, I saw that it was going to be mainly online, and also I would be doing it while I was waiting. There was also an opportunity for a conference on academic writing. Those are the things that I was looking for. When I saw it, I was motivated to apply. When I applied, I got accepted, and I was allocated a mentor. I was in touch with Yusuf Sayed from the University of Sussex. It was during the pandemic, so this was one of the things that kept me busy. At that time, the university was closed, and we were not teaching. So, I said – let me do this to keep me busy. When I talked with Professor Sayed about my research interests, he was positive about them. But it is something that maybe he was it was not of interest to me because I’m a mathematics education lecturer, and do qualitative research – so the aim is improving our teaching and maybe also improving the quality of our training and in-service features. So, if I have to mention anything as a challenge – that I would mention as a challenge – that our disciplines were quite different. So I needed to do a lot of explaining – which was not a problem – also, our approaches to research were different. He was more quantitative; I am more qualitative. I think the methodology samples – very small sample data and doing in-depth analysis. But still, l could argue and then agree. And I could write something to him. It was a very good learning process, through which I improved my writing. So, what I was doing – like I said, we were under lockdown at some point – and then I could get the views from him, not only that I was writing under his mentorship and other papers that I was writing. So, by the end of that period, I managed to publish, I think, two papers before the Compare paper was published.

Catherine Montgomery: that’s great! All three were really interesting experiences. I think all of you have highlighted the importance of the mentor there and your relationship with your mentor. Lisnet, even though you didn’t have the same kind of match for research interests, it was not perfect. I think that it was probably still a positive relationship, as you’ve just said. So it’s really good to hear about how that mentor relationship is really key to the Fellowship, and all of your experiences. They’re really interesting. You’ve all mentioned publications there; we all know that the publication landscape in higher education and the global landscape is very unfair. It is very, very difficult for early career scholars to break into. I wondered if you have publication plans from now and perhaps could say a little bit about that. Jerusalem, do you have any plans for publications?

Jerusalem Yibeltal Yizengaw: Oh yes, as I told you, some of the manuscripts articles these days I am extracting from my dissertation – data from my dissertation as like baseline assessment, as it informed me to see some future engagements of women in the labour market. So I collected data from the online secondary data secondary sources of data. So, I saw data from the ILO – International Labour Organisation – and the Ministry of Education. You know, in Ethiopia, most of the time, what was the problem when I was writing my dissertation? We didn’t have data, well-organised data online. You could not find employment data or graduates’ enrolment data. Even ILO didn’t do something with the data – doing something about the issues related to the workers and the issue of the labour market. But it didn’t give us data online, in an organised manner. So when I was doing my PhD, what was the problem was finding data and finding those graduates – I mean, how could I find the graduates from different scattered places? So, I took data from these two universities – the 1st generation universities – and a bit of data from the archives. At Bahir Dar University, it was well-organised data, which surprised me, but at different universities in my nation, I couldn’t find that kind of well-organised data, so I chose these two universities for comparative purposes. Finding data was very challenging, and it is still challenging to get organised data. So, these days, what surprised me was that I saw data from the ILO employment – the time series data of the people in the labour market. I got that, and I put that in EViews – most of the time, I used that for an econometric analysis list to predict the future labour market opportunities of women in Ethiopia. So, I tried to draft my manuscript on how these graduates have future labour market engagement. I did this analysis when I saw their engagement. It still remains constant – the disparities between men and women – it continues to be constant. I mean, the disparities for the coming seven years – I started using the ARIMA model – the autoregressive integrated moving average – so I used the model, so when I saw disparities in their engagement or opportunities of women – it seemed similar – I mean, the disparity will continue. I drafted that paper for the upcoming publication. I also submitted another manuscript, which we were working on with Ricardo – where I really learned a lot of things, I mean in terms of statistics, in terms of methodology, and in terms of analysis, citations – all those kinds of things. And I’m really glad that I got lots of articles from Compare – that was free access for me as a Compare Fellow – that was a great opportunity. I got lots of articles; I read some of them and highlighted some of them to support my study.

Catherine Montgomery: that’s really interesting! You highlight a really interesting point there about access to data, publications, and journals that might be kind of behind the paywalls. So, thank you very much for that. And I just wondered about the others – maybe Salome. Would you like to come in and tell us a bit about – what your publication plans are?

Salome Joy Awidi: Yes, of course! So we’ve been working on this… first of all, maybe to share that – coming out of the UKFIET conference last year – I was able to do a blog on the piece that I was working on. Yeah, so Elizabeth Walton – my mentor, and I have been working on this article – I know it has dragged, but it’s almost ready; I’m working on the referencing now. And we should be able to submit that soon. But maybe I should also note that although the Compare journal articles have been delayed from the time that we started the membership to now, I have, I think, put out three different publications relating to inclusive education and livelihood for refugees. I think to summarise, I think my technical skills and experience in academic writing have really improved. I have gained quite a bit of confidence in the way that I write. And I must say- that the last three or four articles that I have written are less traumatic compared to those that I wrote at my PhD – out of my PhD thesis. So yes, I think I have a bit more experience. But, of course, I am still learning.

Catherine Montgomery: That’s fantastic, Salome! and I think you make an excellent point there about confidence and you know the relationship between experience and confidence – you know really helps in publication, doesn’t it? And in your research and moving forward. How about you, Lisnet? 

Lisnet Mwadzaangati: Yes, I do. I think my Compare article was published in December 2023, and from that time or since that time I was after submitting the article and during the process of peer review, I was also still writing or still applying the skills that I learned through during this mentorship and Fellowship – to other paper that I was writing. Because as an academician – there is no way I can stop publishing… it’s a must. Like Salome, I also would like to echo the same to say that the experience is just a bit different. I know there is so much funding that has to be done when you have the data. But sometimes it was difficult to say then what should I focus on, and where do I should start from, how do I write? so it could take you months while I was thinking about – how I could maybe approach the data or how I could start writing something from the data and where I would start writing. so through this Fellowship – and maybe also because of how I was learning through my mentor – then kind of a bit different approach – I know we use different approaches, but they weren’t bad – I think what I learned from Professor Yusuf was very important because at first, I used to think – let me right to the introduction, let me the write the literature review, and then I would go maybe to write the findings and the discussions… But during the process – one of the things that I learned from Professor Yusuf was that – maybe you could start from the findings, read it through several times – to see what story you wanted to tell from the findings, then you can maybe when you have done that then you can be thinking of the other sections – that would maybe link with the other sections. Because my problem or my challenge – in most of the review feedback that I get from reviewers was maybe a lack of linking – maybe the introduction, the literature review and the findings – they were not speaking to each other – not telling maybe the same story. But then, when I started this approach of starting with the data itself – engaging with the data – seeing what you can argue from the data – what you can write and derive – this process is a bit shorter for me – maybe to come up with the paper. I am working very hard, and if I have time, then within maybe months, I can be able to produce something without much stress and maybe with confidence as well. To answer your question, yes, I’m still doing… I do have papers which I have already submitted to other journals, and I’m still continuing to do that. But like I said, that is my experience. Maybe you correct me, or maybe not, but I was still asking myself if I could submit another paper to Compare Journal. Would it be accepted? So I was asking myself that question because I saw when I read the papers – most of them, I think, and like I said – they are large volumes of data, and also size in terms of sample – so I try to look for general journals which are kind of I think it also may be balancing between similar size examples or maybe qualitative approaches and quantitative approaches, and the like. So, if I were to submit to Compare – I would ask myself a question – I know that’s what you are, not what you ask me. Because the limitation was that one…one of the things that I kept on arguing with my mentor – he wanted me to move out of that box and then start thinking about a larger volume of data, and also large samples, maybe. But it is not my interest because I’m interested in improving the quality they practise while teaching – by maybe observing the data instead, and maybe also me doing the teaching. Yeah, that’s it, Catherine.

Catherine Montgomery: That’s great, Lisnet! That’s really interesting! And what’s what it’s great to hear in what all of you said is how it’s not just that the article in Compare but going through that process obviously has a knock-on effect to other publications, and you know increases your confidence, increases your experience. And, now I feel a feel like all of you are talking about the importance of data, the importance of kind of ways of writing – so that is really fantastic to hear. And it kind of leads on to the sort of the final questions that we’ve got – which really just maybe quite briefly, if you just let us know how being a Compare Fellow has shaped your future aspirations for research or collaboration – either within your own country or within the academic community globally. Shall we start again with Jerusalem? Would you like to say something here?

Jerusalem Yibeltal Yizengaw: When Compare Fellowship – it’s already known that how it increases your confidence – even to think, to write, and even to present something in different public gatherings outside – for instance, last time there was – I think that might be that the part of the Compare Fellowship, I don’t know or the British Academy – again they have the project here Bahar Dar University – it’s a collaboration between our university and East London University – their project was working in solidarity with Ethiopian research universities – and its about the issue of mentoring, mentorship. So, where I got the invitation to share my experience with the PhD students and early career researchers – where I had very good interaction with people and also continued to be selected as a mentor – you might have information about that, and that might be – I told that this is the impact of the Fellowship that the Compare – it gives me a great confidence to show my experience in a very creative and critical manner. 

Professor Catherine Montgomery: That’s wonderful, Jerusalem. It’s really good to know! And how about you, Salome?

Salome Joy Awidi: Yes, certainly! It did shape my career and my progress as a young researcher from the Global South. I did observe earlier – that I actually Compare Fellowship, I was able to attend the UKFIET conference from which I made quite a number of networks – I noticed that there were so many researchers that were working in refugee education in Uganda that in the country had not noticed. So definitely, my networks have grown, and since then, I have ventured into impact evaluation – there is a research institution in Nairobi – at my organisation, I became the coordinator for research projects, so I think in many ways it has shaped my career development, and I have a feeling it will continue to do so for a while.

Catherine Montgomery: That’s fantastic, thank you, Salome! And Lisnet – how about you? what do you feel the impact of the Fellowship has been?

Lisnet Mwadzaangati: I think I would be repeating this same in terms of – if we have to talk about the impact. For me, mainly the writing part – I did not attend attend the UKFIET conference – because by visa was not arriving when the conference was starting. So I presented my work to a group of people, during a seminar at the University of Cambridge. So, yeah, I got feedback and I got motivation to continue the research. Yeah, that’s what I would like to say as an impact for my future or my academic progress. Yeah, I think I could stop there. 

Catherine Montgomery: that’s great! thank you! And I remember that presentation at Cambridge; it was really good! and it was a good atmosphere there. So, that’s great! And finally, we’ve just got one more question to ask, which was – what advice or tips would you offer to future Compare Fellows or maybe people who are thinking about applying to the Fellowship – would you have any advice for them? Jerusalem. let’s begin with you, if that’s OK.

Jerusalem Yibeltal Yizengaw: So my advice to the future Compare Fellows – I mean they don’t ignore any kinds of details – I mean that was one because of the challenges that I faced when I was a mentee in Cambridge. They should record everything, quite deep quantitative data – especially the qualitative data – recording is everything – every detail is very important. When they are working with their mentor – they have to try different kinds of I mean methodologies and have to fit in different technological and the current engagements of the world – through different algorithms. That was also one of the problems when I was working with my mentor, and it was sometimes a problem for my mentor. When I was challenged with some technological or methodological issue, So, they had to use different opportunities that I got, … they had to use all these opportunities that they got from Compare Fellowship. From the process, they have to entertain all those challenges –treat challenges as a lesson and try for the future. So, it might be great if they get the chance to be Compare Fellows – of course, it demands lots of things – hard work that the mentorship expects of us – but that might give them the drive to research, and different kinds of networking opportunities,  

Catherine Montgomery: That’s great. thank you so much, Jerusalem, thanks! And Salome, do you have any advice, on top of what Jerusalem said?

Salome Joy Awidi: Yes, of course. I think the Fellowship offers such a great opportunity for networking. But also access to resources…working with my mentor gave me access to the whole library, which I have been able to use even for my other interests outside the Fellowship. So, I think it’s a very rich platform. It’s a huge opportunity – gatherings of like-minded people that should be taken advantage of… for the advancement of research interest and for access to relevant, up-to-date material. 

Catherine Montgomery: That’s great. Thank you, Solome! Lisnet, any advice?

Lisnet Mwadzaangati: Yeah, I think I would advise them to go ahead… it’s a rewarding experience. I remember I also motivated one of our colleagues to apply – I don’t know if he applied or not; he did not update me on the feedback anyway. But I am sure, maybe he applied. I told him about the benefits – that he would be given a mentor and then would be assisted. Yeah, of course, I know that – it is also a gamble because it also all depends on the mentor – the relationship between you and the mentor, and how the mentor is committed to doing that type of work. I’m saying this because maybe for me, maybe we took too long – maybe because I was waiting, maybe I could not submit my paper before I attended when I came to the UK. So, it took a long time, and we could spend more time without meeting in between. Sometimes, the feedback was not that supportive or motivating to keep you going. But maybe I know that maybe it’s taken almost two years, instead of one year – due to COVID and the likes – so maybe we spent a long time together and we got used to each other, and the progress maybe started to stagnate a little bit. So yeah, I would advise them to apply… I would motivate them. I always motivate them – I always submit/circulate when I see the advert, and I also tell them to be open-minded.

Catherine Montgomery: That’s great, Listnet! Thank you so much! And thank you to all of you for all of those fantastic insights into the Fellowship.

Subscribe to the Compare Podcast Series. Share its content with friends and colleagues. And feel free to use it as learning material in your teaching and professional context.

Yizengaw, J. Y. (2025). From university to the world of work: education and labour market experiences of women in STEM subjects in Ethiopia. Compare: A Journal of Comparative and International Education, 1–19.

Mwadzaangati, L. (2023). Malawian teachers’ agency in using teaching and learning resources: a product of quality teaching, learning resources and teacher education. Compare: A Journal of Comparative and International Education, 1–19.

Mwadzaangati, L., & Kazima, M. (2019). An Exploration of Teaching for Understanding the Problem for Geometric Proof Development: The Case of Two Secondary School Mathematics Teachers. African Journal of Research in Mathematics, Science and Technology Education, 23(3), 298–308. Mwadzaangati, L., Adler, J., & Kazima, M. (2022). Mathematics Mediational Means and Learner Centredness: Insights from ‘traditional’ Malawian Secondary School Geometry Lessons. African Journal of Research in Mathematics, Science and Technology Education, 26(1), 1–12.

Professor Catherine Montgomery: Hello, and Welcome to the Compare Podcast Series! The Compare Podcast Series brings you interviews with internationally recognised scholars in the field of international and comparative education. The podcast aims to disseminate in a non-academic language search insights published by the journal Compare for educators, students, policymakers, and the wider global education community. Compare is the journal of 糖心传媒 – the British Association of International and Comparative Education. 糖心传媒 promotes teaching research policy and development in all aspects of international comparative education and is a diverse professional association composed of academics, researchers, policy makers, and members of governmental and non-governmental organisations.

I am Professor Catherine Montgomery. I am a Professor of Education in the School of education at the University of Durham in the UK. I’m also the Deputy Executive Dean for the Faculty of Social Sciences and Health. And most importantly, one of the Editors of Compare.

This is the second podcast in the Compare and 糖心传媒 podcasts.  And for our second episode, we’ll be talking to Professor Tejendra Pherali. Professor Tejendra Pherali is the Professor of Education, Conflict and Peace at UCL Institute of Education, University College London. His research focuses on educational issues in low and middle-income contexts and the politics of International Development, with a particular interest in education policies and practices in forced displacement and post-war settings, as well as its role in peacebuilding. He currently chairs 糖心传媒 and the Compare Editorial Board.

Professor Catherine Montgomery:  Welcome Professor Tejendra Pherali to today’s 糖心传媒 Compare podcast. Its really great to have a chance to talk to you, Tejendra. In today’s conversation, we would really like to get to know you and your research a little better. Can you share a little bit with us about your academic journey and how you got involved in educational research?

Professor Tejendra Pherali: Thank you, Catherine, for having me on the Compare 糖心传媒 podcast. It’s an honour to have been invited. My work primarily focuses on education in conflict-affected contexts. And I teach various courses relating to this field, and also carry out research internationally in conflict-affected contexts – this informs my teaching, so that I’m able to engage with postgraduate students with the research that I do, and that I’m committed to building a community of researchers and practitioners who have the critical and reflective knowledge about education in these challenging circumstances.

Professor Catherine Montgomery: That’s great, Tejendra! I just wondered how you originally got involved in that research and what what sparked your interest in that from the outset?

Professor Tejendra Pherali: I come from Nepal a country that was affected by Maoist insurgency and political instabilities for several decades. In 1996, violent conflict erupted in Nepal and I was working as a school teacher during that time. And I saw schools, teachers and children being caught in the violent conflict – and I always wondered why education was targeted for violent attacks. And I had also studied Sociology and Education –  these two disciplines brought my thinking together to try to understand the inter relationship between conflict and education. So initially, I wanted to examine the impact of violent conflict on education. But then later on, I developed my research around how problems in educational system, policies, curriculum and practises – were actually contributing to create those conditions for violent conflict. So, its really inspired through the experience in my own native context. And that’s how I actually started my academic journey – basically my PhD.

Professor Catherine Montgomery: That’s really interesting. Very interesting Tejendra. Its really interesting the way that our personal experience has this impact on our research now our own experiences. I mean your work has had a big impact on education in conflict and peace – could you tell us a little bit about some of the projects that you worked on so far?

Professor Tejendra Pherali: After I completed my PhD, I received a grant from DFID then –  now called FCDO –  to develop a collaborative research programme between universities in Cambodia, Nepal and the UK. And basically, this was to focus on – how teacher education programmes in universities can provide conflict-sensitive learning and professional development to be able to prepare teachers to work with children who live in conflict-affected settings. So, that was probably the first research grant I received when I was working in Liverpool John Moore University. It was a very interesting experience to see how little was realised in the education sector  – around the contentious role of education in fueling conflict drivers. We always know that education contributes to well-being, human capital ,and human flourishing –  that’s the foundational principle for promoting education. Plus societal advancement.  But very little was actually realised around the negative face of education, and I think this this project helped me to critically analyse the historical, political, economic, cultural dimensions of education in Nepal and in Cambodia –  that were actually promoting social divisions, inequality and discrimination through educational practices. So that was the beginning of actual research work that really sort of aligned with my own on PhD at the time.  After that, I’ve been involved in a number of other projects as you asked me Catherine. I worked on the role of Higher Education in promoting peace building in Somaliland, where we collaborated with the University of Hargeisa to design a research-based masters-level course on education, conflict and peacebuilding –  which was very grounded in the local realities, it involved local academics, politicians, youth activists and a whole range of other stakeholders in the local context – to generate ideas and curriculum content for that course which actually became a part of a  Masters programme in peace and conflict studies in the University of Hargeisa. I was actually recently invited to a fascinating conference at the Seoul National University in Korea, where colleagues from that University actually picked that work up and then have advanced that to develop a full masters programme on education, conflict and peace building in Somaliland. It was fascinating to re-engage with academics from Somaliland and from Korea to really celebrate some of the achievements that work has gained. And I can go on and on about the other things. But I’m happy to pick pick up on other projects that I’ve been involved in over the past more than a decade so we can pick them up later.

Professor Catherine Montgomery:  Fantastic,  Tejendra! And really fascinating! You’ve obviously worked in very challenging contexts, and challenging circumstances. What do you think are the biggest challenges you faced in these projects, and how have you overcome them?

Professor Tejendra Pherali: I think there are a number of challenges. But also there’s the excitement around the idea of being able to make a difference in those contexts – where this lack of access to quality education. Educational community has been hugely impacted because of ongoing violence and so forth. So that sense of achievement to work with colleagues who are living in those contexts, so the partnership and collaboration is certainly fulfilling. But as a researcher, when you travel to these conflict-affected contexts you hear a lot of distressing stories and experiences of educational communities. Many of them would have lost their family members. Their schools would have been destroyed by violent conflict. Children would have been affected by war. So it’s always in a way painful and you get often affected by these experiences as a researcher. It is very important to balance maintain your professional and academic integrity but also you manage to cope with the stressful and traumatic experiences of having seen those painful experiences. So yeah over the years, I think you build up this emotional connection with the with the colleagues who you work with in those contexts. So it no longer becomes your profession or a job – it becomes part of your life and part of your human responsibility.

Professor Catherine Montgomery:  I think amazing and so interesting to hear about that . I’m sure you’ve seen a lot of changes over the years that you find been working in these contexts change began work with them you know do you feel that things have improved or got worse and you know what do you think the trends might be you know in the future what do you think what do you think will will happen in the future?

Professor Tejendra Pherali: I think over the years, what I’ve really observed is you know a gradual shift in thinking in our field. I feel basically looks into this you know Education and Development in international contexts. And unfortunately, it sort of has the legacy of the colonial past as the field of Education and International Development. So over the past decade, I think there is a strong critique of the of the field as it develops. Development Studies and the work on Education in conflict-affected contexts is also situated within that debate. I think the conversations around decolonisation, ethics, the power relationships between the sentence is set these critical questions have come to the forefront. What I’ve really seen is this emergence of some of the personal questions around the failure of the modernisation theory –  the critique of this idea that the West has solutions to the challenges faced in the Global South or conflict-affected context. I think there’s a greater level of recognition around how donor countries, Western in some ways, has become complicit in reproducing the problems in these settings. So there’s a call and there’s a tresistance essentially from the bottom, from the grassroots around the architecture of development as well as the processes of knowledge production.

I was involved in a social movement learning project which was funded by ESRC where we collaborated with activists from 4 different countries: Nepal, Columbia, South Africa and Turkey – and the idea was to actually build solidarity and build companionship in learning from the activists who were fighting for justice, human rights, educational rights, and freedom. Those social movements in these countries will becoming spaces of knowledge production – where is the traditional academic sort of system that tends to extract knowledge and put it behind the paywalls, essentially. And that we’re involved in this research to try and sort of build that collaboration. And promoting the value of the processes of knowledge production within social movements and how the knowledge that is produced through the social movements could actually enhance the struggles of the people who produced that knowledge. That was quite a transformative experience for me as an academic. So in a nutshell, I think we’ve kind of begun to enter the era of academic work and practice network where there is a there’s a call for more horizontality in partnership and humbleness and respect for the grassroots knowledge. I think that’s what I think I’ve observed in the shifting over the years.

Professor Catherine Montgomery: That’s brilliant. Really fascinating and interesting to hear your perspectives on that you know it’s something that you know we do see reflect literature that’s emerging

You know you have these you have these big responsibilities. And to change the topic slightly, but just wondered how you first got involved with 糖心传媒? How have you seen the organisation evolved over time?

Professor Tejendra Pherali: Yes, I joined 糖心传媒 I think around 2009 – almost about 15 years ago – just as a member of the association. I was subsequently nominated to serve on the Executive Committee as an Ordinary Member. It was a wonderful opportunity to be part of this community, and which actually brought me to the network of scholars working in the field of comparative and international education. After serving for one term, as an ordinary member, I actually took up a position as the Vice Chair, and then subsequently as the Chair of 糖心传媒. 糖心传媒 a great association, we often call this a 糖心传媒 family –  that is not a huge association like some other societies. But also but it is quite inclusive in my view. But also constantly engaging with its membership, and constantly responding to the academic debates in our field. And also engaging in building solidarities with scholars and activists who advocate for right to education – not only in the UK but more internationally – ss you know Catherine, you yourself as a Co-Editor of the Compare Journal. Ss the Chair of 糖心传媒, I also sit on the Editorial Board as the Chair of the Board. And it’s an honour to be able to work with the Editorial Board of Compare, where we have, over the years, championed this collaborative, non-hierarchical and very inclusive ethos of working. As you know, the four Co-editors lead the journal work collaboratively in on xxx  manner. Also in 糖心传媒 Executive Committee, we’ve also promoted this very inclusive and horizontal leadership practice, where 糖心传媒 officers collaboratively make decisions about key issues that the society faces. And we organise conference and we have committed to keeping the conference registration fees low. As an association, that doesn’t intend to make money out of conference. So we redistribute all the sort of revenues that are generated from the conference. And also the revenue that is generated through the Compare to promote the scholarship of early career researchers but also scholars from the Global South. As you yourself (Catherine) lead this initiative called Compare Fellows – where we invite fellows from low-income context to collaborate with scholars in the UK, which actually provides amazing learning experience for scholars in the UK – which is something we need to constantly remind ourselves and be appreciated.

Professor Catherine Montgomery: Absolutely! that’s great and I just wondered you know with all those duties with 糖心传媒 with all the research that you’re doing, and you know fascinating research very engaging work. How do you manage to balance your role as as a Professor with your leadership duties at 糖心传媒. That’s a lot to take on.

Professor Tejendra Pherali: That’s an interesting question. As academics, I think we have multiple roles – as we do we have research projects to work on, we also are involved in teaching, many of us are also we engaged in scholarly activities, serving professional and learning societies that we are part of. It is certainly sometimes overwhelming as you can imagine. It is also very rewarding and fulfilling to be able to lead the association – make a real difference. For example, during my time with 糖心传媒, we successfully registered the association in the Charity Commission. And we developed policies around 糖心传媒 grants. We’ve also really kind of formalised the way that the various decisions are made within the association. And I think 糖心传媒 has reached its new heights over the past four years. What is really important is to have a leadership culture in the association where you know the voice of all members, and specially the colleagues who you work with in the executive committee or the editorial board, are heard, incorporated and they just check for various perspectives. There’s inclusion and equity, if we if we do that and that we we’re able to refer you know improve the value of the association, and you know bring more benefits for its for its members. So even though I’m very proud of what we’ve achieved over the past four years, this would not have been possible without the sort of dedication and commitment of everyone who is involved in the journal but also various scholarly activities that 糖心传媒 has led over the years. so I’m very proud to have been part of this team – both in the journal as well as 糖心传媒.

Professor Catherine Montgomery: There generally mentioned sorting different parts of your B word I just wondered what you feel is being the most rewarding part of your career to date

Professor Tejendra Pherali: That’s quite a difficult question. But I was wondering I think this is this is the interesting question. What I really have valued is the opportunity to work with you know educational practitioners in these very challenging circumstances. In arout 2014, I went to Lebanon – just after the Syrian war had broken out, and thousands of Syrian refugees had started coming to Lebanon. I collaborated with an organisation called multi aid programmes And this organisation is led by Syrian refugees in Lebanon. I actually connected with this organisation with some of my Masters students at UCL, and many of them actually went to work with this organisation on teacher professional development. I engaged with them for a period of time, and I still actually connected with, and we developed a collaborative research programme. We were able to really kind of create value through collaborations between our universities and the association that was working in this very challenging circumstances. So that makes me feel very proud. Because you know we were able to bring the an academic work into practice in the real world circumstances. But also, we’re able to develop some new ways of working in refugee settings. So as a result, later redeveloped course design – massive open online collaboration –  which is a teacher professional development course for teachers and practitioners who do not have the opportunity to sort of attend formal training in universities and institutions. This is the kind of value that is created through these kinds of activities which makes me feel quite satisfied. Second thing that I’ve been very proud of – is  really how we’ve constantly promoted the scholarship activities of early career researchers. I think that’s been a very sort of prominent a work of BAIE and over the weekend I was part of the 糖心传媒 early career researcher conference. And it was quite humbling to be able to see how doctoral students and early career researchers in collaboration with 糖心传媒 are engaged in active sort of academic activities and have benefited from these initiatives promoted through 糖心传媒. So these are some of the things that I’m very very happy to have achieved.

Professor Catherine Montgomery: That’s fantastic and I mean actually that leads on very nicely to my final question – You know, based on all of your experiences and knowledge that you’ve built up over the years, and it’s fascinating area of and important area of research –  What advice would you give to new scholars or early career researchers in comparative and international education?

Professor Tejendra Pherali: Oh Ok. This is a challenging question I I suppose that there’s no one single piece of advice to everyone. I think we all come from different backgrounds and we all have different kinds of challenges and opportunities in our academic life. But I think we live in a society which is affected by you know violent conflict, mass displacement of populations, rising authoritarianism, and also global inequalities and climate crisis. So I think the new generation of scholars in their field have enormous challenges. But also, you know, opportunities to shape our field in such a way that we’re able to engage more critically with with our field. I also think as an association like ourselves as 糖心传媒, it needs to really promote inclusive ethos, and there’s always a risk of being kind of in the middle of confusion and dilemma about the direction that the association needs to take because we live in a hugely polarised politically divisive society. Our members are equally divided in terms of the political issues and theoretical perspectives, and what we’ve experienced. That’s really a challenge. I think to ensure that an association works in service of everybody, but also being very respectful to very strong emotions and feelings of its members. I think we have to grapple with those challenges constantly – so I think 糖心传媒 has always committed to promotion of social justice, equity and rights of education, and human rights of people, who’ve been affected by different challenges – including violence or oppression and so forth. So I would encourage all scholars who are coming to our field and we’re building their academic careers, to be bold! You know systems of violence –  whether they’re physical or structural – so I think we need ethical scholarship, we need to challenge the domination of epistemic monopoly and manipulation. And I think there’s a lot of discussion around epistemic justice and decolonization of education, so I think these are the key concepts and issues that are going to be prominent in reshaping the future of our field. So I would certainly encourage early clear researchers to be mindful about what is happening in the the world and how our field can contribute to to make a positive change.

Professor Catherine Montgomery: Thats fantastic, Tejendra. it’s been reallyinteresting to talk to you today. And thank you so much for spending time with us on our second 糖心传媒 Compare podcast. It’s been really fascinating insight into your work and your career. Thank you very much indeed.

Professor Tejendra Pherali: Thank you so much Catherine for having me. It was an honour to speak with you. Thank you.

Professor Catherine Montgomery: Subscribe to the Compare Podcast Series. Share its content with friends and colleagues. And feel free to use it as learning material in your teaching and professional context.

Pherali, T., & Turner, E. (2017). Meanings of education under occupation: the shifting motivations for education in Palestinian refugee camps in the West Bank. British Journal of Sociology of Education, 39(4), 567–589.

Pherali, T. (2016). School leadership during violent conflict: rethinking education for peace in Nepal and beyond. Comparative Education, 52(4), 473–491.

Magee, A., & Pherali, T. (2017). Freirean critical consciousness in a refugee context: a case study of Syrian refugees in Jordan. Compare: A Journal of Comparative and International Education, 49(2), 266–282.

Pherali, T. (2021). Social justice, education and peacebuilding: conflict transformation in Southern Thailand. Compare: A Journal of Comparative and International Education, 53(4), 710–727.

Pherali, T., & Buckler, A. (2022). In memory of Honorary 糖心传媒 member, Professor Lalage Bown. Compare: A Journal of Comparative and International Education, 52(3), 517.

Compare Article

Dr Mona Jebril (2023) Between construction and destruction: the experience of educationalists at Gaza’s universities, Compare: A Journal of Comparative and International Education, 53:6, 986-1004, DOI: 

Tejendra Pherali

The Compare Podcast series brings you interviews with internationally recognised scholars in the field of international and comparative education the podcast aims to disseminate in a non-academic language research insights published by the journal Compare among educators students policymakers and the wider global education community.  

COMPARE is the journal of 糖心传媒 – British Association of International and Comparative Education. In each episode, one of our hosts together with one member of the editorial board of the Compare engages in a 30 to 40 minute conversation with an academic to discuss research that relates to educational development and change in different parts of the world.

Uma Pradhan

Our first guest in this Compare Podcast Series is Dr Mona Jebril. Today, we explore the experiences of educationalists at Gaza’s universities?under occupation.? 

Aizuddin Mohammad Anuar

At the present time, the Higher Education system in Gaza has collapsed. According to “Scholars Against the War on Palestine”, a transnational coalition endorsed by more than 3,400 scholars around the world, Israel has bombed every university in Gaza. More than 200 educators and 4000 students have been killed in the latest round of Israeli assault. The current situation in Gaza and wider Palestine has been described as a “scholasticide”. 

Uma Pradhan

We will be discussing with Mona her? Compare article, titled – Between construction and destruction: the experience of educationalists at Gaza’s universities. This paper was published online in 2021 and in print in 2023, in Compare Volume No 53 Issue 6.  ? 

Uma Pradhan

My name is Uma Pradhan – one of the editors of the journal Compare,

Aizuddin Mohammad Anuar

And I am Aizuddin Mohamed Anuar, Book Review editor of Compare. And we pleased to co-host this conversation with Dr. Mona Jebril. 

Aizuddin Mohammad Anuar

Dr. Mona Jebril is a Research Associate at the University of Cambridge Centre for Business Research,?and Bye-Fellow at Queens’ College Cambridge.?Mona is a Palestinian academic who lived in Gaza for 22 years and worked at two of its universities.?She is an interdisciplinary social scientist focused on Gaza and conflict-affected areas in the Middle East. Follow her on X, formerly Twitter?@Mona_Jebril? 

Uma Pradhan

Hi Mona. Welcome to the Compare Podcast. Thank you for joining us today. You are the first guest in our podcast series, and we are really excited to talk to you.   Your article titled, Between construction and destruction: the experience of educationalists at Gaza’s universities – was published in Compare in 2023. In this paper,you draw on the research you conducted for your PhD as a Gates Scholar at the University of Cambridge, between 2012-2017.?Tell us a bit about this research. Why and how did you get interested in researching higher education (HE) experience for educationalists at Gaza’s universities? 

Mona Jebril

Thank you so much Uma and thank you Aizuddin for inviting me to the first podcast which is really exciting. I am an interdisciplinary social scientist but actually I have a lot of background in education. I worked for several years as a teacher at public schools and a lecturer at two of those universities. My academic qualifications are also in higher education. My MSc is in higher education, and my PhD is in education. So, when I wanted to start looking for my PhD, I was at that time working as a lecturer at one of Gaza’s Universities teaching the BA in Education Programme. And it was very clear that lecturers and students were working under very unconventional conditions including of course at the best dating blockade lack of resources frequent words context of season Palestinian separation internal challenges as well. I was reflecting a lot about this because I noticed that academic work at the university may also be undermined by hidden challenges. I didn’t quite know what that meant at that point but I thought this was something invisible that I would like to explore. So when I started my PhD at Cambridge, I came across a similar observation by Sarah Roy who also talked about the structure of the development in Gaza. I decided to take this observation of the invisible and the de-development from reflection to research. So, I took this as my PhD topic and of course it was supervised by Professor Diane Reay at the University of Cambridge.

‘In Gaza, we are considered as if in a prison, albeit a large one. The aeroplanes and bulldozers are surrounding us from all sides. The sea is for a long time restricted. Everything here is hit with frustration […]. No one can leave or enter. Everything is closed, and our internal resources are zero.’ Mr Omar – An academic living for 55 years between borders and barriers in Gaza (a quote from Mona’s paper).

Aizuddin Mohammad Anuar

Thank you, Mona, for that introduction. So based on your research, can you speak a little bit about the difficulties that are faced by the academic staff at the university that you studied?

Mona Jebril

Yes, I think the difficulties are coming from all sides. So it’s not only from the University or related to academic work. But also related to the context in which the university functions and lecturers and students. This means that, as I indicated, Gaza suffers from a structure of “de-development” that affects all aspects of life. This means that the economy is suffering. There is an increased level of unemployment, there is increased restrictions on academic mobility. So academics and students had to also face 6 to 12 hours of power cuts. This creates difficulties preparing for lessons, of course, correcting exams, using PowerPoint, if at all available, or planning of events. There is also the war, repeated war. So since 2008 at least four to five wars took place in Gaza. This research was conducted from 2012 to 2017. And during the course of this research at least two wars took place. And when we talk about war, we talk about so many destruction. And this destruction are physical and psychological as well. It touches the university space – the offices, the buildings, the equipments. But it also demolishes homes neighbourhoods and creates frustration and trauma. The restrictions on mobility, which I describe in my paper as a structure of “de-mobility” discourages academics from even going or participating in conferences or going to pursue their higher education. Sometimes because of the difficulties that they are likely to face in their way back or in their way out. So even when the border happens to be open, which happens in unpredictable ways, they are likely not to take the risk. Unless there is some kind of backup plan what happens if they were locked out. There are, of course, the restrictions on mobility also means that limited books, limited academic visitors – so this affects the university with lack of diversity. It limits the horizon of the university in terms of their ability to establish platforms that connect them with the global sector of higher education. The Palestinian society also suffers from Palestinian schism, which means the separation between Hamas and Fatah which also added basically more challenges to the internal community. So these are just the sample but there are more and I can continue basically talking about this that in the podcast.

‘Sometimes [the Israeli soldiers] would stop students on their way to the university, the UA. They would stop [… .] particularly university students [… And then out of provocation] order one to hit his friend, to beat him [… and] to spit on his face.’ Mr Suleiman, an academic in the university in Gaza, who with his colleagues have initiated new diploma and master’s programme at the UA which widened Palestinian access to HE (a quote from Mona’s paper).

Uma Pradhan

So, in this context of development and the mobility that the academics are facing in Gaza’s universities, how do they manage or try to navigate these challenges? You also mention in your paper that there is a contradictory role of social network, kinship and social relations. Could you tell us a bit more about it?

Mona Jebril

Yeah, of course. Thank you for your question. I think in brief they do their best that they can, they push as much and as hard as they could. And there are several factors that motivate them to do that. Sometimes I mean the data showed that, for example, lecturers sometimes relied on the religious beliefs for motivation. So because they believe that if they work hard and sincerely – this entails an obligation from God and that it will continue to benefit people. Sometimes what motivated them was a just sense with patience that they need to be patient. And also this is linked to a sense of fatalism – that is this is our faith and we have to do our best. Within it, we cannot change this context and we want to improve life as much as we could for us and for the new generation. Which is also linked to the nationalistic motivation because they feel also they want to help the new generation of Palestinians. They perceive education not only as a way of, you know, gaining financial security or employment but also as a way of resisting the occupation and resisting injustice. Also, there is the social context, and the social context looks at lecturers as role models. So they would sometimes also be motivated by feeling that it is their mission to be strong all the time, even when they don’t actually when they have themselves being exposed trauma, like for example, at the time of the war they will do their best not to show this to their students. For them, students and lecturers together, sometimes also they look at higher education as a space for hope. Some of the lecturers have also during their course of life been exposed to several obstacles and restrictions. They feel more experienced a bit in, and between brackets, and they are now can basically learn also from these experiences to adapt. And you asked also about the social support or network.  I think the data showed that there is the kinship in particular was a strong factor in the social networks in Gaza. And this seems to be playing on the positive side and on the negative side. Which means on the positive side, of course, social network is reported to have helped people. Especially at the time before for example the internet was available to access opportunities of higher education and of employment abroad. Because they could link them then to these opportunities. Also social network has proven for many people as helpful during times of wars because they could help each other seeking refuge at a refuge at each other’s home. Also supporting each other to be strong to be resilient. But on the other hand, because the context of Gaza which had severe lack of resources and opportunities, there is the sense of competition. And sometimes, these competitions are related to basic rights basic human rights such as healthcare or maybe employment. And so this competition created sort of relying somehow on this kinship for access of these scarce resources. And which made it sort of nepotism being somehow condemned as natural in the society, as the data have shown. I have not conducted a specific research on this point however the data has pointed towards that.

‘It would take me three or four hours sometimes to reach my work place, […]. When I enter the lecture hall, I would find that the students were equally late, or have not come at all.’ Mr Zeyad is an academic working in Gaza, who studied for his Masters in the US (a quote from Mona’s paper)  

Aizuddin Mohammad Anuar

So Mona, how did the education lists in your research utilise the spaces within higher education to navigate or assert their positions or agency despite or amidst all of these challenges that you mentioned?

Mona Jebril

Thank you. It varied by the time as well, because for example when we talk about lecturers – some of them have witnessed, were teaching at the time of war or studying as well at the universities, when these universities were closed. And so they turned to alternative ways and spaces like the mosques or their homes – turning their homes as schools. I remember one of the interviewees mentioned that her teacher for example took the chemistry equipment to her home to help students during this period of closure. So they strived with whatever spaces were available for them. And, of course, then things also change with the Internet. Then the people have also alternative spaces because they could also link to other, for example, universities or educational institutions as well and have some sort of exchange. In general, those who have been also receiving their higher education in other countries or foreign countries even before these liberties have become available in Gaza, they use their expertise basically to open a new Masters and PhD programmes as well and empower their students as much as they could. There is a general influence of Egyptian education on Palestinian universities. And this is, of course, linked to a history of I think almost two decades of Egyptian curricula and text being taught at Gaza. But also linked to the proximity and some scholarships also that were available. So there are, as I mentioned, the universities to try as much as possible to find empowerment in whatever spaces could be available at the time.

‘I was trying to escape [the war], and to feel that I was still alive’. Ms Etaf – an academic in a University in Gaza who published a research paper amidst the war in 2014 (a quote from Mona’s paper).

Uma Pradhan

Thank you. We talked about educationalists, and university lecturers doing different things to manage these challenges. What about the students how have their experiences been shaped by these political contexts?

Mona Jebril

I think students have been affected because they live in the same society, obviously. So the impact of occupation, of restrictions on movement, of repeated wars, of the economic conditions –  all reflect on their life and on their education. For example, with regard to employment, there is a high rate of unemployment and especially among the graduates which reaches around 70%. So this has a lot to do – it is impacting on their motivation as students. Because many of the interviewees, student interviewees, talked about basically their education journey as being a journey without aim, without hope. They have seen queues of graduates who could not find any employment for them, even after four years of studying. So, they try basically to get higher marks. So they increase their competition in the very limited labour market available. Generally,For example, teaching is looked at as a female space – mostly female students will be encouraged to study for education, so that they have a teaching job. But now the data also pointed that males started to also wanting to study teaching. And the reasons they give for that is not their interest in teaching or becoming teachers but because this seems the largest labour sector for employment that is available. And they hope that it may give them better opportunity for kind of permanent employment. So, they the same thing that I mentioned about fatalism and about religion as well, are used or sometimes students draw on their sense of religion and on a sense of fatalism as well, on social support to be able to go on with all these difficulties and focus on their education. While some students also reported looking at education actually as a space where they can experience their agency as the mini-states – you know considering the university as a mini-state, where they could actually feel some joy by connecting to their lecturers, feel through the reading they are reading for example at the university or things that they are learning. They feel they are in different space and again it gives them this sense of hope of a better future.

‘I was raised in an environment where all my family are educated, so I followed their footsteps’ Nawal, a student in a University in Gaza (a quote from Mona’s paper).

Aizuddin Mohammad Anuar

So, Mona, you did mention about how the choice of education pathways are also related to potential employment prospects and the differences say initially between female and male experiences and choices but did you also find any other kind of differences along the lines of gender in terms of student experiences in these universities in Gaza?

Mona Jebril

Yes, thank you. I think generally I would say that the experiences differ. So there is a disparity. However the data shows that males seem to enjoy more freedoms than females in Gaza. And restrictions on females for example included prescriptions sometimes on their specialisation. Aometimes females are the ones who are choosing education because they have taken the decision that this is actually better for me for employment or for whatever. But there are other students who talked about their society a kind of describing this to them as the best choice because then they can have better time, it’s more suitable for a female compared to a job that would require night shifts, for example. And then they also some students also talked about -female students talked about surveillance over their dress, as they are in the university. And this surveillance sometimes included not only wearing jilbāb or but also including the colour, including the design – whether it has buttons or not, including the headscarves. They also complaints about limitations on their ability to travel for higher education alone. Some said that their family or their society would require them to have a Mahram, a male relative, basically who’s mam to travel with them. And, of course, there are also limitations for travel if they have responsibility for their homes. So, there were disparity again about these accounts – some students were still feeling that their families would encourage them to go on. But this seemed as general theme from the data that females enjoy relatively smaller spaces of freedom than males. Female lecturers also reported about biased scholarships, between males and females, and also challenges that they face in their leadership positions. Interestingly, some males talk about actually that they perceive females as having more advantages than them. Because they are higher in the higher achievers in their academic study. And also they reported that sometimes employers actually would prefer to have a female employee because they work harder or whatever. The data also pointed towards a contradiction between the reality for female students inside the university and outside the university. In a few cases, where at the university females may be felt more empowered and could decide for themselves. even go a smaller small set of making a small set of choices related to their study. While in the society. they felt that they still had to fit within a traditional perception of the role as females. Again males contradicted mentioned something, which also was interesting, that they perceived females actually as receiving better treatment and that the university would be more flexible with females than males. However, they were also kind of supporting this contradiction in thinking that OK we actually have better space in the society compared to our female counterparts. So again, the data showed contradictory impulses about gender which would be interesting to explore in more detail.

Aizuddin Mohammad Anuar

Thank you, Mona. So, in concluding your paper you mentioned, and I quote, empowering Gaza’s universities and their educationalists requires interventions that would connect the procedure universities with a lifeline of truly generous international academic support that is based on the Palestinian experience. So by way of conclusion, how can our listeners learn more about this and contribute to this lifeline of support?

Mona Jebril

I think it’s really an important question and specially at this time for Gaza, where what is happening in Gaza at the moment – all universities have been damaged, students studies have been disrupted, the condition of displacement, the loss, the suffering, the humiliation and the humanization – requires that world universities also discuss among themselves what they could do to support higher education in Gaza – students, lecturers, universities. Based on recommendations, I talked about empowering Gaza’s universities and their educationalists, at the time I wrote this research, considered that since we’re talking about a context of the “de-development” and what I described in my research paper as a process of construction and destruction, and this is continuous. I try to visualise it in my thesis actually as a swing – so you do construction and then it’s destruction, construction – destruction, so how do you deal with that?  So my recommendation was actually to increase the construction in relation to the destruction. Because it seems that there is always it has always been that there is destruction there. And the way to do that within limited resources in Gaza, within continuous challenges on all aspects, is really difficult. And so having a lifeline to empower these universities is essential! And this lifeline… because we’ve seen also through the history of education, of higher education, and both Palestinian developmental context, more generally, that there are efforts that happen.  But sometimes donors interventions and developmental interventions also make their political agendas. And so this is why I emphasise on “truly generous” that it does not work to undermine Palestinian right to Palestinian self-determination. The suggestions I thought of, at that point, and possibly now also could be explored in relation to the current situation is that these universities need to be connected with global higher education – through partnerships, through programmes, through collaborations. We need to create platforms for the voices of Palestinian academics and for Palestinian students and encourage them to share their own experiences – whether in publications, conferences or other ways as well – to contribute with their own voice about their own higher education, to create opportunities with scholarships and widening participation for students in Gaza, more generally. But now also thinking about OK what can we do to these students who, all of a sudden, have seen their universities being blown up, and they are in their third year or fourth year?  What can we do for these academics? And once these students come basically to study international universities, do we assume these students to be just within the body of international students or do we actually create mechanisms also to acknowledge that there are conflicts, that there is a situation of war, and conflict, and occupation and this needs to be considered in helping these students and staff to be included in the university space. Donors and funders need also to base their projects on the Palestinian experience. I hope that my research can contribute to that as a memorandum of initial understanding basically on some aspects of the university experience. But I’m sure there are also other ways to learn about this experience including conducting research on Gaza which is a significantly under-researched contexts, supporting libraries with online subscriptions as well, translation services, creating remote and physical opportunities for employment as well. And when I’m talking about this it just comes to me that it is not when also international universities would help and connect with Palestinian universities, they should not look at these universities as being inferior. Because this came also in one of the pieces of research that I conducted, where the perception was that these are disadvantaged universities So what are we actually going to benefit from them. But I think that Palestinian academics have proven to actually perform to the highest levels, when they had the opportunity of studying and of connecting to global higher education. I really hope very much that the listeners of Compare Podcast as well as world universities and all people who are able in the position to help Palestinian students and universities –  to try at least to explore what can be done to support them now or whenever at the nearest possible chance, after this war ends.

Uma Pradhan

Thank you so much for speaking to us today and sharing these important insights from research. And thank you so much for the wonderful work that you’re doing as well. We really appreciate your time.

Mona Jebril

Thanks so much, Uma. Thanks so much, Aizuddin. I really appreciate this opportunity for sharing my research on Gaza.

Aizuddin Mohammad Anuar

Thank you, Mona.

Academic Life under Occupation in the Gaza Strip

A series of videos from Mona Jebril’s Cambridge PhD thesis. Her research is entitled: “Academic Life Under Occupation: The Impact on Educationalists at Gaza’s Universities”. It is a sociological study which explores the past and present higher education experience of educationalists at Gaza’s universities, and how this experience may evolve in the shifting socio-political context in the Arab world.

Video 1: Introduction to the series

Video 2: A Journey Without Aim, Without Hope

Video 3: A Life Between Borders and Barriers

Video 4: The War Experience